Posts by RU Saved

66

Is Christmas for Pagans?

by LittleToe in

jw
friends

given that so many practises associated with christmas are blatantly christian in origin, is christmas truly for pagans?.

i know that often there are few christian connotations attributed to it nowadays, in such a secularised society, but history is on record in showing that the whole baby jesus thing is definitely a christian element.

would any true pagan today want to drink such a mixed cup?.

RU Saved

Honestly,

I think I may have read your question wrong.

66

Is Christmas for Pagans?

by LittleToe in

jw
friends

given that so many practises associated with christmas are blatantly christian in origin, is christmas truly for pagans?.

i know that often there are few christian connotations attributed to it nowadays, in such a secularised society, but history is on record in showing that the whole baby jesus thing is definitely a christian element.

would any true pagan today want to drink such a mixed cup?.

RU Saved

Honestly,

My point is that most people who celebrate Christmas don't even know about the pegan roots. I didn't at

least. It has now become a cultural thing.....with no intentions of acting out what the pegans did. If

they ARE acting these things out, do they know better? If yes, than I see your point. But I don't think most

people know, so why hold them accountable for what pegan did years ago? Where do you draw the line on

what is acceptable and what's not? Does the "personal heart condition" matter at all in celebrating a certain

day? .

Thanks for the replies.....

66

Is Christmas for Pagans?

by LittleToe in

jw
friends

given that so many practises associated with christmas are blatantly christian in origin, is christmas truly for pagans?.

i know that often there are few christian connotations attributed to it nowadays, in such a secularised society, but history is on record in showing that the whole baby jesus thing is definitely a christian element.

would any true pagan today want to drink such a mixed cup?.

RU Saved

Hey guys,

I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I was never really raised a certain religous way. So I was fairly ignorant

about religion.... although I did feel I had a personal relationship with the father growing up (I'm 22). When

my family celebrated Christmas, I viewed it as thanking God that he sent his Son to save me; and how

thankful I am for that.... THATS ALL. I never knew about the pagan roots that you guys discuss here. My

question is, do you think God will hold me accountable for my actions and my "heart condition" when I didn't

even know how people acted hundreds of years ago? Was my true "heart condition" evil like the pagans of

yesteryear? I'm thinking of an analogy like money (let me know if you think it's a bad analogy). Is the

money itself evil or the actions behind it? Is Christmas itself evil or the actions behind it? I agree that

Christmas has a lot of additional stuff in it, but to me, the only thing that is important is to thank God and

Jesus for what they did for us. I agree of course, that you should do this everyday, which I do. Do you guys

think it is wrong to celebrate Jesus birth on one particular day though, whether it's the 25 or any other day of

the year?

Thanks for your replies guys.....

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

RU Saved

ss,

Could you do me a favour and "cut and paste" Almost's questions like he does yours so we do not have to go back and forth to the other post; the pages are starting to get pretty long. Please answer the questions like he has asked you to (1-5 etc) after you have pasted Almost's questions above your answer. If you think you already have answered the questions he has asked, then it should be fairly quick for you to cut and paste your answers for each of his questions. I'm not as smart as you guys so organizing bit-by-bit makes it much easier to follow. Plus it addresses the each point directly without each side thinking the other is trying to spin the anwer. Thanks guys for not acting like jerks...at least not to much; it makes it much more enjoyable to read and doesn't waste our time.

33

Matthew 24 Verse By Verse

by Nate Merit in

the 24th chapter of matthew text is taken from

33 so you also, when you see all these signs, may be sure that he is near--at your very door.

this indicates that "the end" will be something these apostles can reasonably hope to "stand firm to" long enough to see, i.e., within their lifetime.

RU Saved

Doesn't "US and You" refer to the gentiles and jews, not individuals? Why would he come to die for our sins and then the end of the world would follow right after (within 50 years of so)? How would everyone around the world here the gospel within such a short period of time?

9

on a co-equal trinity and pagan holidays

by sweetscholar in

it's easy to see straws or beams or splinters in other people's eyes, and yet fail to notice the trunks and logs and things in our own eyes.

but anyway, about those emails.

there are points that are never really truly honestly addressed.

RU Saved

Sweetscholar,

What do you think of the verse Isaiah 44:24, which states, "I, the L ORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone." How do you reconcile this with the Watchtower teaching that Jehovah first created Christ and then Christ created everything else?

Peace Bro

31

JW's: Polytheists?

by jstalin in

i was thinking today about the issue of jesus' deity (or lack thereof), according to the wts.

they say that jehovah is god, jesus is not the same as jehovah, but that jesus is a god.

doesn't that make jws polytheists?

RU Saved

Regaurding the fact that you said Jesus was an angle. Please read the first chapter of Hebrews. The whole focus of Hebrews 1-3 is to demonstrate the superiority of Jesus Christ-- including His superiority over the prophets (1:1-4), the angels (1:5-2:18), and Moses (3:1-6).

In Hebrews 1:5, we are told that no angel can ever be called God's son: "To which of the angels did He [God] ever say, 'thou art My Son...'?" Since Jesus is the Son of God, and since no angel can ever be called God's Son, then Jesus cannot possibly be the archangel Michael.

If no angel can ever be called God's Son (Hebrews 1:5)---and if Jesus is in fact the Son of God -----then doesn't this mean that Jesus cannot be the archangel Michael?

31

JW's: Polytheists?

by jstalin in

i was thinking today about the issue of jesus' deity (or lack thereof), according to the wts.

they say that jehovah is god, jesus is not the same as jehovah, but that jesus is a god.

doesn't that make jws polytheists?

RU Saved

One more thing. I believe you said that the definite article Ho is always used in reference to Jehovah and not Jesus. I believe you are mistaken. Please look at John 20:28, where Thomas says to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" The verse reads literally from the Greek, "The Lord of me and the God [ho theos] of me." Clearly, Christ is just as much God as the Father is. Other examples of ho theos ("the God") being used of Christ include Matthew 1:23 and Hebrews 1:8. We see again, then, that the same words used of the Father's deity are used in reference to Jesus' deity.

If theos ("God") with the definite article ho ("the") is used in the New Testament of Jesus Christ just as it is used of Jehovah -God, then doesn't this mean Jesus is just as much God as the Father is?

31

JW's: Polytheists?

by jstalin in

i was thinking today about the issue of jesus' deity (or lack thereof), according to the wts.

they say that jehovah is god, jesus is not the same as jehovah, but that jesus is a god.

doesn't that make jws polytheists?

RU Saved

Sweetscholar,

I differ with you on this subject. Some verses do not use the definite article ho "the" in all cases pertaining to God like you stated. An example is Luke 20:38, where we read of Jehovah, "He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living" (NWT, emphasis added).

If the Greek work for God (theos) can be used of Jehovah without a definite article in New Testament passages like Luke 20:38, doesn't this undermine the Watchtower argument that Jesus is a lesser god because the definite article is not used with theos in John 1:1?

If we translate other passages in the New Testament the way Jehovah Witnesses translate John 1:1, we come out with some very strange-reading verses indeed. Matthew 5:9 is an example: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of a god" (instead of "sons of God"). Likewise, the rule of consistency would force us to translate John 1:6, "There came a man who was sent from a god" (instead of "sent from God"). We would also have to translate John 1:18, "No one has ever seen a god" (instead of "seen God").

Let one examine these passages where the article is not used with theos and see if the rendering 'a god' makes sense (Matt. 5:9; 6:24; Luke 1:35, 78; 2:40; John 1:6, 12, 13, 18; 3:2, 21; 9:16, 33; Rom. 1:7, 17, 18; 1 Cor. 1:30; 15:10; Phil. 2:11, 13; Titus 1:1.

Lets take it a step further. Is Jesus a true God or a false god? As I am aware of, all the gods in the Bible that do not refer to Jehovah are false gods. But if he a true God, that is, one of the three persons in one God, then that violates what JW believe. Which on is it?

Please correct me if I am wrong. Peace and Love.

7

Second Chance?

by RU Saved in

does this quote mean that basically everyone will be resurected and then have another chance to learn about god during the 1000 year millennium?

included in the earthly resurrection will be (1) the faithful witnesses of jehovah who died before christ did, (2) the billions of other people who will be brought back in the "resurection of judgement" and (3) the people of good will who today take their stand on god's side but who through sickness, old age or another cause happen to die before armegeddon is fought.

it is thought that the earthly resurrection will be spread out over a period of time so that all these people after being resurected on earth can be taken care of in an orderly way, and without confusion.

RU Saved

Does this quote mean that basically everyone will be resurected and then have another chance to learn about God during the 1000 year millennium?

Included in the earthly resurrection will be (1) the faithful witnesses of Jehovah who died before Christ did, (2) the billions of other people who will be brought back in the "resurection of judgement" and (3) the people of good will who today take their stand on God's side but who through sickness, old age or another cause happen to die before Armegeddon is fought. It is thought that the earthly resurrection will be spread out over a period of time so that all these people after being resurected on earth can be taken care of in an orderly way, and without confusion. The people brought back earlier will help to get things ready for others who are yet to return. (From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, p.232)

If yes, then why would someone become a JW now when they can just push it off to the future? Party time? Why would someone choose to become a JW and not a "Christian"? If someone chose to become a born again Christian lets say,and JWs were right, then you would have nothing to lose, right? Its a winning "odds" everytime if you were a gambler.